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	<title>Comments on: Survive R</title>
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	<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=survive-r</link>
	<description>The Applied Theorist&#039;s Point of View</description>
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		<title>By: jmount</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1653</link>
		<dc:creator>jmount</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1653</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1582&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@jmount &lt;/a&gt; 

Found it: Dan Weinreb&#039;s blog September 18th, 2008 http://danweinreb.org/blog/the-failure-of-lisp-a-reply-to-brandon-werner  :

&lt;blockquote&gt;I am distressed and sad to hear that the community is judgmental and unfriendly to newcomers and thorny and un-inspiring.  I have heard this same criticism from other people than you, and at this point I assume it must really be true.  My own point of view is, of course, entirely different from that of newcomers, so it’s probably harder for me to see that this is going on.  Indeed, to me it seems that people do get answers on comp.lang.lisp and LispForum, and the tone doesn’t seem so nasty to me, usually.  Maybe I’m just not “getting it”.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


A friend&#039;s blog ( http://erehweb.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/gold-and-intrinsic-value/ ) found a similarly amusing quote on a different topic: 

President Ulysses S. Grant:

&lt;blockquote&gt;“A noun is the name of a thing,” which I had also heard my Georgetown teachers repeat until I had come to believe it.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1582" rel="nofollow">@jmount </a> </p>
<p>Found it: Dan Weinreb&#8217;s blog September 18th, 2008 <a href="http://danweinreb.org/blog/the-failure-of-lisp-a-reply-to-brandon-werner" rel="nofollow">http://danweinreb.org/blog/the-failure-of-lisp-a-reply-to-brandon-werner</a>  :</p>
<blockquote><p>I am distressed and sad to hear that the community is judgmental and unfriendly to newcomers and thorny and un-inspiring.  I have heard this same criticism from other people than you, and at this point I assume it must really be true.  My own point of view is, of course, entirely different from that of newcomers, so it’s probably harder for me to see that this is going on.  Indeed, to me it seems that people do get answers on comp.lang.lisp and LispForum, and the tone doesn’t seem so nasty to me, usually.  Maybe I’m just not “getting it”.</p></blockquote>
<p>A friend&#8217;s blog ( <a href="http://erehweb.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/gold-and-intrinsic-value/" rel="nofollow">http://erehweb.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/gold-and-intrinsic-value/</a> ) found a similarly amusing quote on a different topic: </p>
<p>President Ulysses S. Grant:</p>
<blockquote><p>“A noun is the name of a thing,” which I had also heard my Georgetown teachers repeat until I had come to believe it.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: jmount</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1585</link>
		<dc:creator>jmount</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1585</guid>
		<description>Tip 8: Sometimes the answer really is in the help (after being let-down a bunch of times by the help system I got out of the habit of checking it, but that isn&#039;t a good idea).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tip 8: Sometimes the answer really is in the help (after being let-down a bunch of times by the help system I got out of the habit of checking it, but that isn&#8217;t a good idea).</p>
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		<title>By: jmount</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1582</link>
		<dc:creator>jmount</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1582</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1581&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@David Winsemius &lt;/a&gt; 
On the whole I like the R community, but statistics can raise everybody&#039;s tempers.  So I do agree that the R community deserves some respect.

I was trying (and failed) to find the article where one of the fathers of Lisp admitted (using some beautiful language like &quot;I don&#039;t believe this myself, but so many people have told me this I must accept it is true&quot;) that he felt one of the reasons Lisp is being outcompeted by its newer and weaker rivals (Python, Ruby, Arc) was that the Lisp community was rude to beginners.  The fact that they were responding curtly to the ill-formed questions formed by beginners had the effect of  chasing away beginners (and without beginners you eventually have nobody left).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1581" rel="nofollow">@David Winsemius </a><br />
On the whole I like the R community, but statistics can raise everybody&#8217;s tempers.  So I do agree that the R community deserves some respect.</p>
<p>I was trying (and failed) to find the article where one of the fathers of Lisp admitted (using some beautiful language like &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe this myself, but so many people have told me this I must accept it is true&#8221;) that he felt one of the reasons Lisp is being outcompeted by its newer and weaker rivals (Python, Ruby, Arc) was that the Lisp community was rude to beginners.  The fact that they were responding curtly to the ill-formed questions formed by beginners had the effect of  chasing away beginners (and without beginners you eventually have nobody left).</p>
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		<title>By: David Winsemius</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1581</link>
		<dc:creator>David Winsemius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1581</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1094&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Kevin Wright &lt;/a&gt; 
Kevin wrote:
&quot;Tip 8: Grow thicker skin to withstand the abuse you will receive when posting to r-help.&quot;

Please consider an alternative Tip 8 for using the r-help list: 
Read the Posting Guide first, and then post reproducible code with a clear specification of the desired result.

-- 
David.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1094" rel="nofollow">@Kevin Wright </a><br />
Kevin wrote:<br />
&#8220;Tip 8: Grow thicker skin to withstand the abuse you will receive when posting to r-help.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please consider an alternative Tip 8 for using the r-help list:<br />
Read the Posting Guide first, and then post reproducible code with a clear specification of the desired result.</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
David.</p>
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		<title>By: jmount</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1553</link>
		<dc:creator>jmount</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1553</guid>
		<description>Another one that is great once you know it (but took about 2 hours to find):

&gt; data(Chem97,package=&#039;mlmRev&#039;)
&gt; subset(Chem97,score %in% c(0,10))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another one that is great once you know it (but took about 2 hours to find):</p>
<p>> data(Chem97,package=&#8217;mlmRev&#8217;)<br />
> subset(Chem97,score %in% c(0,10))</p>
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		<title>By: Helmingstay</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>Helmingstay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-929&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Scott Locklin &lt;/a&gt;

zoo and xts are now fairly standard for complex timeseries. True, many core functions still operate on ts objects. The conversion doesnt involve the Prince, though!  

Are you sure about xts and arima? Xts is a superset of zoo. and documentation indicates that ***zooregs*** work with arima and brethren with no loss of information. See p6 &amp; 7 of current zoo docs here (obtained via rseek.org, nice tip!)   http://r-forge.r-project.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/*checkout*/trunk/inst/doc/zoo.pdf?rev=134&amp;root=zoo

0. No whinging before reading upper-level documentation. I agree that function help pages can be confusing at first, and that many packages lack vignettes and overview explanations. Still,  there are 20 years of books for learning the *language* (counting S), and many very readable books have emerged lately (e.g. Lattice). I consider these, along with great online resources like   http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/spoetry.html to be the &quot;M&quot; in that venerably cry of &quot;RTFM&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-929" rel="nofollow">@Scott Locklin </a></p>
<p>zoo and xts are now fairly standard for complex timeseries. True, many core functions still operate on ts objects. The conversion doesnt involve the Prince, though!  </p>
<p>Are you sure about xts and arima? Xts is a superset of zoo. and documentation indicates that ***zooregs*** work with arima and brethren with no loss of information. See p6 &amp; 7 of current zoo docs here (obtained via rseek.org, nice tip!)   <a href="http://r-forge.r-project.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/" rel="nofollow">http://r-forge.r-project.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/</a>*checkout*/trunk/inst/doc/zoo.pdf?rev=134&amp;root=zoo</p>
<p>0. No whinging before reading upper-level documentation. I agree that function help pages can be confusing at first, and that many packages lack vignettes and overview explanations. Still,  there are 20 years of books for learning the *language* (counting S), and many very readable books have emerged lately (e.g. Lattice). I consider these, along with great online resources like   <a href="http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/spoetry.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/spoetry.html</a> to be the &#8220;M&#8221; in that venerably cry of &#8220;RTFM&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jmount</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1132</link>
		<dc:creator>jmount</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1132</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1090&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Edward Ratzer &lt;/a&gt; 
Edward, thanks for the correction.  Sorry about the blogging software fighting you- once I saw your statement that you need an empty parent environment I approved your comment without check further, because it is such an important point.  But it is even nicer that you have included the code in addition to the warning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1090" rel="nofollow">@Edward Ratzer </a><br />
Edward, thanks for the correction.  Sorry about the blogging software fighting you- once I saw your statement that you need an empty parent environment I approved your comment without check further, because it is such an important point.  But it is even nicer that you have included the code in addition to the warning.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1094</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1094</guid>
		<description>Minor correction for slide 5 with the &quot;LearnR Example&quot;.  Not every figure from lattice is re-created in ggplot2.  Most are, but there are numerous caveats along the lines of &quot;ggplot does not support 3D graphics...&quot;

Another site I find helpful:
http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques/

print.default() is another way to print objects without using methods.

Tip 8: Grow thicker skin to withstand the abuse you will receive when posting to r-help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minor correction for slide 5 with the &#8220;LearnR Example&#8221;.  Not every figure from lattice is re-created in ggplot2.  Most are, but there are numerous caveats along the lines of &#8220;ggplot does not support 3D graphics&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Another site I find helpful:<br />
<a href="http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques/" rel="nofollow">http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques/</a></p>
<p>print.default() is another way to print objects without using methods.</p>
<p>Tip 8: Grow thicker skin to withstand the abuse you will receive when posting to r-help.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Ratzer</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1090</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Ratzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1090</guid>
		<description>Oh - I&#039;m guessing that your blogging software doesn&#039;t like the use of less than / greater than signs.  :-(  My comment should have recommended using 

 map=new.env(hash=T,parent=emptyenv())

You&#039;ll see why this is needed by running 

get(”map”,envir=map)

on your first construction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8211; I&#8217;m guessing that your blogging software doesn&#8217;t like the use of less than / greater than signs.  :-(  My comment should have recommended using </p>
<p> map=new.env(hash=T,parent=emptyenv())</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll see why this is needed by running </p>
<p>get(”map”,envir=map)</p>
<p>on your first construction.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Ratzer</title>
		<link>http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2009/09/survive-r/comment-page-1/#comment-1083</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Ratzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.win-vector.com/blog/?p=862#comment-1083</guid>
		<description>You need to be careful with your new.env command.  You also probably want to specify an empty parent:

 map get(&quot;map&quot;,envir=map)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to be careful with your new.env command.  You also probably want to specify an empty parent:</p>
<p> map get(&#8220;map&#8221;,envir=map)</p>
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